044 - The Power of the Bigger Story
Have you ever felt like you were alone in your journey as if you were left to make things work on your own? It's a common feeling that many of us experience at some point in our lives. But what if there’s a much larger story that you’re a part of? A story that is bigger than you, bigger than your problems, and bigger than your wildest dreams.
This week On This Walk, my walking partner is Jeff Harmon, founder of Brilliance Within Coaching, an innovative training and coaching firm. We talk about his journey toward realizing that he is part of a much larger story. We explore the importance of intentional connections with people who support and speak truth into our lives, regardless of whether they are part of a church community. We also touch on the concept of benevolent detachment, detachment out of love, and deep care. We conclude our conversation by delving into the importance of choosing from love, instead of fear.
In This Episode
(05:33) - The enormous story we are part of
(13:48) - The idea of co-creation and partnership with a divine presence
(17:54) - Connecting to nature and bigger wisdom
(19:30) - The bigger story: Jeff’s journey towards realizing the larger story and how he found his mission.
(20:24) - The importance of being in service of something bigger than oneself
(32:42) - How we can better pay attention to the signs in our lives
(37:10) - Freedom and benevolent detachment
(39:22) - Apprenticeship and a safe container
(44:13) - Counterintuitive truth: When stakes are high but the pressure is low
(49:06) - Supportive circles in the journey of doubt
(50:01) - The importance of support
(53:03) - Choosing love over fear
Notable Quote
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“I'm not the hero of my story, and that's a relief. I think you said in our group last night, so many of us act as Atlas to put the world on our shoulders. And to have this moment, and it's not just one moment, it's over time to be able to say that it's not up to me, life is not up to me. I'm an active participant, or partner even. But it's just a big relief. And so that's the invitation that is available for everyone. And that's the conversation that I love to have because, you know, religion today, by its own doing, has such a horrible rap. But this isn't about going to church on Sundays or being part of an organization, just that it's the farthest thing from that. This is about entering into this love affair, this relationship, this bigger, and thereby this enormous story."- Jeff
Our Guest
Jeff Harmon, a brilliant coach with 20+ years of relationship-building experience, empowers leaders to achieve their goals. Faced with a degenerative nerve condition in 2006, he embraces each day's value. Jeff's mission is to elevate leaders through innovative solutions, fostering high-performing teams that prioritize commitment and mutual respect.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
Jeff Harmon
Mentioned
Jayber Crow - https://www.amazon.com/course-Miracles-Foundation-Inner-Peace/dp/1883360269
The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life - https://www.amazon.com/Lion-Trackers-Guide-Life-ebook/dp/B07LC9C7Q4
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[00:00:00] Jeff: This invitation to this larger story that, that's what I've been sort of drawn into is this, this environment where the stakes are high. Yeah, but the pressure is low. And from that place, you know, you could list the things that are possible.
[00:00:16] Luke: Welcome to on This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness.
[00:00:21] I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me in my brilliant heart-centered guests each week as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul, and with something bigger than ourselves. Now, let's go on this walk. Hello there.
[00:00:40] Everyone, and thank you once again for joining me on this walk today. You know, there's a deeper context to things that I would really like to explore on today's walk on today's conversation, but let me begin it this way. You see, it's amazing to me how easy it could become to become lost inside of our lives.
[00:01:01] I look back at my life and at different stages, at different chapters. I look back on different decades, different jobs, different relationships, and I can see the many times where it feels like I've gotten lost, lost to my thoughts, lost to my pursuits, and what felt like the chase of achievement lost to my own emotions that would swirl up and down.
[00:01:19] With the changing circumstances that I would find myself in, I'd get lost in my identity, lost in my expectations, lost to the details of it all. I'd get lost in my own story. So what do I mean by lost? Well lost in the sense that I couldn't see the forest from the trees, that I couldn't pull myself back enough at certain times to see the much bigger picture or story that was unfolding, or at least had the potential to be unfolding for me.
[00:01:46] I was lost in the sense that my awareness was placed in the details or the content, the pace, the chaos, even the feelings of what was going on. But it wasn't more broadly focused than that. It wasn't more open. I wasn't centered. I wasn't at peace in a sense. My head was down and I was oblivious to a much grander view that could have been available to me at that time.
[00:02:07] And yet, whether we know it or not, we both have a bigger story and we are a part of an enormous story is my guest today would put it for this walk. I want to ask you to first take a big, deep breath. Just take a pause. Let in some spaciousness and let out whatever it is that you need to release in this very moment so that you can allow yourself to be here.
[00:02:39] Allow yourself to set the details and content of your life aside for this next hour. So don't worry, it'll still be there if you choose to pick it back up in the same way, and allow yourself to consider what is the enormous story that you are part of. This walk really started a couple of weeks ago over a fairly impromptu lunch with my friend, my colleague, my guest.
[00:03:03] You see, we first met actually at a men's workout group F three, and we've been getting to know each other bit by bit ever since. But thankfully, Jeff reached out and we connected for lunch. Near the end of our time, we sat over some coffee and as I felt into what it was that we'd been discussing this whole time.
[00:03:22] I asked Jeff a question that I'll be honest, I've kind of fallen in love with, and I think I might have first heard this frame, or it was introduced to me through the famed author and teacher, Joanna Macy, and that question that I posed to him, which I do pose to many of my guests as as we prepare for these chats, is, what is the biggest conversation that you wish to have with the world?
[00:03:43] Well, I pose that to Jeff and well, today's walk is the result of that. So let me introduce him. My guest today is Jeff Harmon of brilliance. Within coaching, Jeff Harmon has over 20 years of experience building relationships to equip and mobilize leaders to achieve their most important goals. He's built his life and career based on two principles, how you lead matters, and it's not about me.
[00:04:07] In 2006, Jeff was diagnosed with a degenerative nerve condition. The reality is, is that some who get diagnosed with this condition die. He knows more than almost anyone he has ever met the value of Every day upon diagnosis, Jeff looked at his mortality in the face and then got the news that he's one of the fortunate ones, and the disease will likely not take Jeff's life.
[00:04:33] He has a much longer lease on life and lives with the regular reminder of its impermanence. Jeff uses every precious moment of life to fulfill his mission, to elevate and empower leaders to create high performing teams who value one another and keep their commitments. He and his team does this through innovative leadership and cultural development, culture development solutions that work within the constraints of the ultra busy work life.
[00:04:58] And with that, Jeff, thank you for being here. Thanks, Luke.
[00:05:04] Jeff: It's really exciting to be
[00:05:06] Luke: be with you today. Thank you. I want to dive right in. I don't wanna give much preface or anything beyond what I've already done, and I want to actually offer your words back to you, which is that as you we spoke about, and as you kind of wrote into me, you are part of an enormous story.
[00:05:23] Lean into it and stop manufacturing smallness. So let me ask you, what is this enormous story that we find ourselves a part of? Hmm.
[00:05:35] Jeff: Well, I'd actually like to, I'm not gonna avoid the question, but I would like to actually start with a quote that really is part of my journey to this desire for more.
[00:05:50] Mm-hmm. I can't say exactly what, at what point in the journey, but it comes from the book, Jabber Crow by Wendell Berry. Mm-hmm. And it is a fictional piece, but it's very much if you learn about Wendell Berry's life, it's quite a bit autobiographical. But the quote is this, now that I have had most of the life I'm going to have, I can see what it has been.
[00:06:18] I can remember those early years when it seemed to me I was completely adrift and at in time when looking back at earliest times, it seemed I was wandering in the dark woods of error. But now it looks to me as though I was following a path that was laid out for me, unbroken and maybe even as straight as possible from one end to the other.
[00:06:41] And I have this feeling, which never leaves me anymore, that I have been led. I'll leave you to judge the truth of that for yourself. Mm-hmm. And so that passage, short passage in the book, Is a, is a marker on my journey. And I've learned over the years to stop and say, Hmm, I was raised in a Christian family, went to all the Sunday school lessons.
[00:07:11] The classes knew who God was. But there was a moment sometime in the last 12 years over the, I'll say over the last 12 years, where I've realized I had this deep belief that I was by and large alone. That God was, he existed. It was true he was there, but that I was largely left to make things work on my own.
[00:07:40] And it's really struck me, I think I wasn't planning on sharing that quote, but as you did the introduction of feeling lost, I felt alone. I felt that life was up to me. I felt like I was behind in probably most everything in my, in my life, you know, parenting, marriage, yard work, you know, fitness, all of it.
[00:07:59] And so I started to experience an invitation. In some ways supernatural, but also in a very practical way by men, mostly who, who were brought into my life and gave me an invitation or the possibility of an invitation of something greater, of a story, of an invitation into a much larger story. And to use the word that you gave back to me, enormous story.
[00:08:31] And so, I share all of this out of my own experience. I haven't gone to seminary. I'm not a theologian, I'm not a teacher of this per se. What I've just experienced more and more is the, the drawing into this much larger story, and I call it a phrase I use a lot, is we are set in a massive love story.
[00:08:52] Mm-hmm. The, that's at war. We are in a daily battle for our hearts, for our very souls, but we're in an enormous love story and our creator. I read the Bible from front to back, and I'm doing it again this year, and not to study it and not to become this expert, but what struck me that never struck me in 47 years of reading bits and parts of of that story is it's a love story from beginning to the end and then beyond in the lives of, of those that have accepted that to be a part of that, that invitation.
[00:09:28] We are in a love story and we are being pursued by. Who I believe is the greatest lover of souls, of hearts, of men and women and his greatest desire, him being God is just overwhelming. Like, and the possibilities, I mean, we can talk more about what's possible because of it. It's just, I've felt over these ye past years is I've leaned into this and accepted this invitation of just, okay.
[00:09:58] Okay. I'm not the hero of my, of this story, and that's a relief. I think you said in our, in our group last night, so many of us act as Atlas to put the world on our shoulders and to have this moment and, and it's not just one moment, it's over time to, to be able to say, uh, It's not up to me. Life is not up to me.
[00:10:21] I'm, I'm an active participant, a partner even. But it's just a big relief. And so that's the invitation that is available for everyone and that's the conversation that I love to have is because, you know, religion today has such a, it by its own. Doing of such a horrible rap. Yeah. But this isn't about going to church on Sundays or being part of an organization.
[00:10:47] This Yeah. That, that is the, the, it's actually the farthest thing from that. Yeah. This is about entering into this love affair, this relationship, this bigger, and thereby this enormous story.
[00:10:57] Luke: So first what I, I, I have to acknowledge, I can actually feel. Like both chills as well as even a little bit of tears as you were reading that Wendell Berry quote, and because of how much I connect to what I see as the truth in what he was revealing, where I do look back and what has at times been adrift at times felt like a very wandering way, which.
[00:11:28] We're not gonna go to F three, but has a very funny connotation for me at the moment, and the idea that our path has actually been straightened unbroken the whole time feeling like I have been led here and I can feel the recognition in those words. What I also wanna acknowledge is what you shared, which you picked up on from the way that I introduced us today.
[00:11:54] Was that I, you know, I also, I mean, you could, you could hear it in what I was saying, felt for a very long time, that sense of being alone and it was, you know, feeling like it was up to me. I always believed that there was something that, by call it, we call it god or divine, or source or universal consciousness, by, by whatever name you choose to, to call that source.
[00:12:19] I've always felt that, but it never felt. Here, right. It always felt like something distant. And so it was up to me to create my life and to do this and to do that and make things happen and handle all the things right. And somewhere in this story is that when we think about that enormous story, we have been led to believe that we answer that question from a place of ego.
[00:12:49] Where we make ourselves the hero of that story, as you were saying. And yet there is so much relief in the idea of, I'm not the hero of the story, but I want to have you expand a little bit on that. Right? Because we think so much about we are at the center, right? We're at the center of, of all of this. And if I'm not the hero, What am I supposed to do?
[00:13:13] Like what do I do with that?
[00:13:14] Jeff: My prayer when I put my feet on the floor and I sit in my wheelchair is father, father me today. Hmm. And you know, for me, it's a recognition that I am, I'm being fathered daily. I'm being a apprenticed daily moment by moment that I'm being apprenticed. That's, to me, that's one of the greatest invitations of Jesus coming is like, yeah, come follow me.
[00:13:46] Watch how I do it. Yeah. In one of the translations of the Bible, it's called the Message Translation of famous passage outta Matthew 28, but in the this very modern, everyday language, the translation is, follow me, come work with me. Watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I'm not gonna put anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.
[00:14:10] And so it's a recognition that I've been equipped, certainly with gifts and talents and abilities, and I'm called to use them, but I am in, I'm being fathered, I'm being app apprenticed out of love. That, and, and that's an important piece of this too, is this recognition. That the one who is doing this is deeply relational and in love with me, delights in me.
[00:14:40] And another one of those micro prayers that I pray is show me what you're up to in my life today and how this, this next piece is really important. Cuz it's not just like, oh, I'm a I'm a limp dish rag. Show me what you're up to in my life and how do you want me to partner with you? You being in my world is God.
[00:15:04] So what are you up to? This is the acknowledgement that you are the hero. You are the one leading. And how do you want me to partner in what you're doing? There's a phrase, I might have been Ben St. Augustine, but he said God could do it without us. Mm-hmm. But he won't do it without us. And so that's the heart of the story, is we're not just puppets.
[00:15:30] We are active partners and participants, and that's exciting. Like this is this life, this in invitation that I've been invited into, that all of us are invited into is an adventure. Like there's risk, there's harrowing moments. There's moments when we are called to step up and to bear the sword or the arms, whatever the moment calls for.
[00:15:54] So this is not a limp dish rags type of story where the puppeteer just sort of make things happen. That's the nature of the story and the invitation that we're
[00:16:03] Luke: called into. I really appreciate, you know, you kind of connecting it to those types of questions, right? Or what are you up to in my life and how is it that you wish for me to partner with you?
[00:16:14] Because there is that misunderstanding of this divine presence is either not in our lives or is the puppeteer. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's not binary. It's not just a this or that, right? It's what is meant by this idea of co-creation. We've got all of this unbelievable magic that is happening inside of our lives that is divinely orchestrated, and at the same time we have a role to play in that.
[00:16:42] And I think that's, if I tie that to the way you describe this as a love story, Is a beautiful way of thinking about that, right? Is that you can have somebody come to you who completely just showers you unconditionally with love, but you still need to consider what's being asked of you. If you are going to be in relationship, you need to consider, okay, what's my part in this?
[00:17:10] Absolutely. And right. And I, and I, that's, you know what, I think it's, it's been interesting and I'll, I'll, you know, to share. Which, you know, people have heard pieces of this throughout the different podcasts and, and different episodes. For me it was a very interesting journey of, you know, landing into feeling like I've landed into and seen now this story and experience this story for me.
[00:17:31] Traveling through all sorts of different traditions and doing some studying in, in all sorts of different spiritual paths. And then ultimately, I'd say the one that probably opened me up the most was just the really good fortune of being able to study with some indigenous teachers as, as well as those that had learned from those lineages, and that for me, opened up my connection to nature.
[00:17:57] In a very different way, like a very personal, very relational way. Not just, Hey, I love being outside. This was a, how do we actually bring ourselves into relationship with the land that we live on? How do we come into relationship with the trees that are around us, with all of the beings that are around us, and how do we start to recognize there is this just vast.
[00:18:21] Bigger story, vastly bigger wisdom and intelligence that is all around us at all times. And it was in that connection and through those traditions that ultimately I could feel the enormity of what we're part of. And that reintroduced me to what I would now say is creator and divine. And then later on, part of what that led me to was a personal relationship through Christ Did consciousness.
[00:18:50] It was a very. What seemed like a very winding path that perhaps was straight and unbroken. And so I guess one of the other pieces, and I, I do want to, you know, at some point talk about what's possible because, but I want to explore some of that path. The question that I think I come back to more often than not now is to think of or to ask myself, what am I in service of?
[00:19:13] And I'm asking that more often than not because, and I think it was even I read that in your introduction, one of the, the two questions that you guide yourself by is, it's not about me. And so I'm, I'm curious when, you know, when I, when I throw that out there, that idea of what am I in service of? What comes up for you?
[00:19:30] Jeff: Hmm. Obviously the audience wasn't, I, I had the privilege to be in a, in a circle men's circle with, with you last night, and others reflected in thinking about where can I be of best service. You know, there was a question that we, that we sat with and, and so this is, uh, I think it's kind of innate within us.
[00:19:51] To, there is an innate part of us that is self-serving, but there also is the recognition that there is something bigger and others to be in service of. So the place that I always start, I had and have a mentor on this journey for me, and I w at moments I would struggle. What's my mission? What am I called to?
[00:20:11] And he would say, I don't know. Well, we can talk about it, but I can tell you one thing, if you ever are in doubt of what your mission is. He always brought me back to the bigger story. You always bring me back to, you know, Jesus said, you know, when he was tested and you know, what's the two greatest commandments?
[00:20:30] And he said, love God above everything else. So pour yourself into that love story and love the people that he puts into your life. And this mentor of mine would look at me after he would remind me of those two things he said. Who are the number one people that have been put into your life? And that being my wife and my kids.
[00:20:53] And I thought about that last night as I think maybe it was you or one of the other guys was sharing. It's like when there's a doubt or question of what you're in service of, you know, maybe it is a bigger mission, maybe it is water wells and Guatemala. Mm-hmm. Maybe it is healthcare in sub-Saharan Africa.
[00:21:10] Maybe it's men's work. You know, it could be those things. But whenever you're in doubt, come back to love the people that God's put into your life. And the, the number one people are the ones who sleep under your roof or, you know, in the case of some listeners who, whose uh, kids maybe aren't there, you know, extends beyond your roof.
[00:21:29] But, and so what am I in service of? My number one calling is as husband and dad I was listening to. An interview of Derek Severs and he got emotional because, and, and the interviewer asked, well, why are you getting emotional? When he reflected on his greatest mission? In his case it was, it was his son. He was no longer married, and he said, because the stakes are so high.
[00:21:58] Hmm, the stakes are so high. And you know, we could have a whole podcast just on that, but just coming back to your question, what am I in service of? I see my number one role is as, or two roles, I guess they're different, is husband and dad. Mm-hmm. And I don't put coach, I don't put consultant. They're down the list.
[00:22:21] They're a role that I play and important, but they're not the number one role. That's not the number one. Person or people that I'm in service of is my wife and my kids.
[00:22:33] Luke: What I also love about kinda the context that that brings is if I, if I do connect that to that question or, or that that thought of this enormous story that we're a part of.
[00:22:45] What I love about where you just brought that is to remind us the enormous story doesn't have to be quite literally the feeling of enormous from a, a human egoic standpoint. It can be just what's right here with us in front of us right now, and to be part of that love story in our lives, right? I've gone through this with so many different clients and students and whatnot through the years of these different questions of how is it that you want to change the world, right?
[00:23:16] And it'll be like this really big, lofty question. And very often we quickly will be able to reframe it of, no, we don't need to change the world. How do you wanna change your world? And how do you wanna define your world and start at the very, very center of what your world is, because at the end of the day, that's actually where the story takes root.
[00:23:35] It takes root right where you are, and then it'll go wherever it's gonna go. But you'll always know whatever roles you're intended to play, whatever it is that you, you, you know, you can carry out into this world. It's gonna come from that core of what really truly matters most and who it is that you serve.
[00:23:53] In the center of that, and even as we've discussed, you know, with, with some of the things that I'm, I'm considering in my life and my career right now, so much of that starts at home. And that's so much of, of the influence of what comes first, so that I can then say is does that feel like the next step?
[00:24:14] Does it feel like an extension? Does it feel like it's in service of that? Does it feel like it supports that for everybody? I, I just consider, have you consider that question of, of what are you in service of? And just reflect on that.
[00:24:27] Jeff: I spent so much time, regrettably acknowledging how much I love my family.
[00:24:34] Followed by a Yaba. Yes. I love my wife and my girls. Yeah. But, and, and the Yaba was followed by, there's gotta be something bigger. There's gotta be something more. And again, maybe there is a teacher of mine, he says, take the lowest seat until. You're called up not by raising your hand and and seeking that, but take the lowest seat until there is no other choice but to you to step up and lead.
[00:25:04] Hmm. So it's been so relieving to let go of the Yaba and to come back to the quote from Jabber Crow, uh, to say I'll be 49 here in a few weeks, but to say, as I reflect on 49 years. I have felt at times, I've been in the lost woods of error, but I'm being led and it's benefited me and my business. I am resolved to leave the hustle and grind behind.
[00:25:33] I don't feel the need tho those inclinations rear their head and they come back. Mm-hmm. But I've, I've been able to set that down. Yeah. There is no hustle and grind. I don't believe in it anymore.
[00:25:54] Luke: One of the phrases I used to use quite a bit was that I had my nose to the grindstone. Think about that phrase for a moment. Even just picture it nose to the grindstone. I thought that was some kind of statement of strength or work ethic, and that's what I learned anyhow from school and community to keep your head down and work hard.
[00:26:17] And listen, focus. Putting in the work is a really good thing. Had no challenge with that. However, think about the way that we do it, nose to the grindstone. I mean, literally it means that I would lose perspective on any bigger picture or context cuz I wouldn't pick my head up. I just keep it down. It meant that my head would be down, keeping me disconnected from any bigger story, from any other possibilities or ease that might be somewhere else around me at that given moment.
[00:26:46] And even the grindstone, it gives you this sense of quite literally grinding away of the friction that's involved to work in that type of capacity. And I wore that paradigm, like a badge of honor, even when I was missing out, not only on what life had to offer, but missing out on what mattered most to me.
[00:27:08] Being present with my family, being present to my life, being a part of some bigger story. That idea of being led has been a struggle for me at different times and in different ways in my life. Having kept my nose to the grindstone, I got very good at what has gotten me ahead in my life. I had gotten very good at figuring things out and knowing which way to go.
[00:27:32] It eventually even had others start to refer to me as the leader, and that got into my identity to be led. It feels contrary to all that to be led. It feels like laying all of that down. It's a call to surrender, and that flies in the face of what I and specifically so many other men have been taught.
[00:27:53] But to be led to surrender to me is something so much more, it requires even greater strength in leadership. At least that's what I can share with you now to be led doesn't mean laying down and being passive in life. At times, yes, you may actually need to practice not doing, you may need to practice silence and stillness and patience.
[00:28:17] Part of that allows the being of who you are to begin to emerge, and at other times, to be led may means that you are being led to step in and to step up, that you may be placed in a position to lead through a challenge or very difficult times. You may be called to lean in and become the fullest version of yourself, which means facing all of your fears, doubts, wounds, hurts, stories, attachments, and so on.
[00:28:49] Being LED asks you to consider what bigger story are you a part of? What bigger story are you pouring your energy into? And that's one key aspect that really started to shift things for me. It can be as simple as starting with whether or not you believe that we live in a benevolent universe or not. It could be, as Einstein said, there are only two ways to live your life.
[00:29:17] One is though nothing is a miracle. The other is though everything is a miracle. I started considering which story I wanted to put my faith into. Which story did I wish to surrender to, to be led by? And that has led me unintended to even deeper faith in the unfolding of this life. For some of you, putting this in terms of God may connect deeply for others, maybe not for others, you may need to put this in terms of that big story, the universe, life nature, or maybe even the divine.
[00:29:56] It doesn't matter by what name you call it, what really is the important part? Is to find what works for you personally to relate to that bigger story that you are a part of. Once you can relate to it, once you can feel it, once you can see how this narrative relates to you and the way in which you wish to live your life, then begin to try it on for size for six months, maybe even a year.
[00:30:22] Notice I don't say a week or a month requires a whole lot more commitment than that. And it takes time for some of what can change to do. So this isn't an overnight thing, but lean in and see what changes for you. Lean in and let the universe delight and surprise you as it begins to lead you. Feel for what it is that's trying to happen through you feel for where it is that you're being led, and see the journey that it takes you on.
[00:31:06] I recognize, you know, so much of that as well in myself. The Yeah. But certainly, I'm pretty sure everybody here listening, it can shake their head and go, oh yeah, I, I'm aware of how often I have, I've said that at times I'm aware of as you, you described even kicking off today of that desire for more. The way in which that has played a role as well as popped up in, in my life at different times and, and still occasionally starts chirping away of.
[00:31:32] But isn't there more? Isn't there? This isn't there? That, and I think what, what kind of ran through my head, and I'm gonna tie this to one of those two questions that you shared before of, you know, what are you up to in my life? What are God divine? What are you up to in my life? I think the way that I have started reflecting on that is what's being asked of me.
[00:31:55] What is it that life is asking of me right now and starting to pay attention to that? Because I think that was the other thing through my time. Some of it was indigenous traditions. Some of it was just a kind of nature-based approach to, to some, some guides and, and a mentor that I was working with was, Beginning to really just start to tune into all of the different, I don't have a better word for it.
[00:32:19] So, you know, let's not take this as the, the platitude. It comes out as all the different signs that are always around us. And when you start asking these very rich questions that can't be answered, and yes, no, that can't be answered with one simple line. Right? And they really take you into this deep place when you, you sit and walk with these types of questions as well.
[00:32:42] Start looking around at what's really actually unfolding in your life. Where are those people being placed into your life? Where are certain circumstances being placed in your life? And I'll be honest, I'm, I'm, you know, Jeff, I'm curious about this for you. Most of the, I would say not most, but certainly I have a good noticing that a lot of the signs or a lot of the situations that I would find were speaking to me in my life weren't the easy ones.
[00:33:11] Some of the most challenging ones, the ones that were asking for me to take either a hard look at myself or for me to be called forward, to step forward in some capacity that I hadn't yet imagined to confront something that previously I was doing my damnedest to avoid. Right, and so when I say look for the signs, it doesn't mean like unicorns and rainbows are just gonna fall into your path and say, here it is.
[00:33:38] Here's your answer. Here's where you're going. Very often it for me, I have found that actually that's where I start to tune in and recognize that the challenges that I'm experiencing my life are exactly actually where the divine is at work or where I am being something is being asked of me and to look at something.
[00:33:59] Yeah,
[00:34:00] Jeff: it reminds me of a book I would recommend everyone listen to actually listen to the audible version or the audio version. It's called The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. Do you know the book?
[00:34:11] Luke: I actually have it. I have not yet read it, but you recommended
[00:34:14] Jeff: it to me. Oh, okay. Okay. No, uh, Boyd Vadi is South African in the book as a guide to life.
[00:34:20] He uses the comparison to tracking lines, or it could be any animal, it could be a cheetah. Could be whatever the animal is in the reserve where his family owns. And he talks about this ability to be so present in the moment. And he tells a story of when he was a youngster being taught by a master tracker, a native of the land, and, and he said, what?
[00:34:50] What do you see? And he is a boy, reflect, oh, I see this. I see that. He says, now go back onto the path and get down, close to the ground and really, and then tell me what you see. And so this ability, this, this idea of being so present, having the direction in mind and the destination or the, the objective in this case, tracking a lion or an animal.
[00:35:21] But to be so present to what's in front of you. And I think that what you're pointing to is whether it's challenging, whether it's a rainbow, whether it's a piece of crap from the animal on the ground, whatever. But to be so present, to see the evidence, to see the tracks. And the idea in the book he talks about is the next first track that even when, when the track is cold, Okay, what's the next first track?
[00:35:49] And it requires just such a presence to be present in the moment. And so I think you're pointing to that and it's been such a gift, this idea, this book of be present to the next first
[00:36:02] Luke: track. That's such a wonderful phrase to be able to offer. And that's, to me it's, it's funny cause it that's so often what it feels like, right?
[00:36:10] Is that for a while we feel like we've got the track. We've got the path, things are unfolding in a way that feels maybe aligned and congruent and, and wow, I've, I've got it figured out, right? Where'd the track go? And so for us to be able to just think of, okay, well what's simply the next, first track is really just a, a wonderful kind of perspective that we can, we can move into at any given time.
[00:36:39] And I think that's starting to bring up for me, I mean we're, we're sort of heading in this direction, but you had framed it before of when we recognize this enormous story, this love story that we are part of. When we recognize that we are not the hero of this story, there is so much that becomes possible.
[00:37:01] Hmm. And I was wondering if you could, you could speak to that a bit of, of what is it for you personally? It has become possible.
[00:37:10] Jeff: Well, St. Paul says that we weren't given a spirit of fear. We are given a spirit of freedom. Doesn't mean I'm not afraid. Doesn't mean I don't get afraid. I do probably more times, more, yeah.
[00:37:22] More often than I'd care to admit. But there's, there's a freedom of, and, and there can be, there can be arrest. One of my mentors, cuz I, I've, I've lamented a lot and really ruminated on my kids. And my kids are great kids. It's exciting to think about because of who they are, but, but I still, am I getting it right?
[00:37:45] Am I doing it right? And he says, Jeff, a good time to measure how you did as a parent is when your kids are 40. And even then, It may not be an ac a good check, and for me, that's helped me in parenting. But it's also, it's a, a bit of a, of an analogy to what we're talking about is to, is to disconnect, to detach benevolently.
[00:38:10] Yeah. Another one of my teachers, he uses the term benevolent detachment. Yep. Not detachment from a cold, uncaring place, but benevolently out of love, out of deep care. Take my daughters as an example. Stay with that. Out of care, out of love, for them to be detached from those outcomes. Be present, be active, be attuned, serve, you know, all those things still are true.
[00:38:40] It's not a invitation to be, again, a a limp dish rag. But to benevolent detach, I give you another one of my micro prayers is I gotta give you everyone and everything today. And that's, that's sort of this cry or this prayer of benevolent detachment. Just to, to set it down. Hmm. To sit down the weight that can come with being a dad or running a business or.
[00:39:09] Whatever it is that you are up to in, in the world. And so to feel the f the freedom of this benevolent detachment, I give you everyone and everything. I think often of, of true apprenticeship where you enter into an apprenticeship situation, maybe you think of medieval times. It's not as much the case here anymore, but you think about those times when somebody would leave their home and move into the home of the master.
[00:39:38] The carpenter, the blacksmith, whatever that the master was and whatever the apprenticeship was, it was safe. Yeah. Like the apprentice could mess up, they could make mistakes. And it was within this container that the master created out of love. And I'm sure not all of them were out of love. I'm sure there were unpleasant masters.
[00:40:03] Probably didn't deserve that title of master, but in the truest sense, it was okay. It was safe. That's what I try to create for my kids is situations where they can test their limits, where they can experiment, where they can fail, and I feel like that's the part of this invitation to this larger story that that's what I've been sort of drawn into is this, this environment where the stakes are high, but the pressure is low.
[00:40:33] And from that place, you know, you could list the things that are
[00:40:36] Luke: possible. That brings up a, a slew of things for me. One is that through the traditions and whatnot that I've traveled through is just that recognition. The flip side of that benevolent detachment is just how caught up we get and how lost we get when there is attachment and how small.
[00:40:55] Our story can get how small our view and our awareness can get, because that awareness immediately, that attachment, sorry, immediately collapses our awareness because it's always gotta be part of the picture. So we can never expand beyond that at any given moment, right? And so for us to know how is it that we detach not from the place of avoidance, not from the place of apathy, not from, you know, any of those places, but how do we detach?
[00:41:23] From that place of giving freedom, giving freedom to what needs to begin to emerge here, giving freedom to as, as both of us being fathers, knowing how it is that we can create that container that is safe, loving and accepting and allowing our kids to do what they need to do to mess up to, you know, find their struggles to scrape their knees and.
[00:41:52] To know when it's time to let them pick themselves up and to go through that process as opposed to hovering over what's going on. And I love the way that you're mirroring. For what you have found in your faith and in this enormous story that we're part of the fractal that, that I recognize that as Right.
[00:42:12] The, the recognition that what we're playing out within our lives is very much, what is the example that's been set by a creator to us is that we have been given that container, and as you said, if the stakes are high, the pressure is low, maybe speak to the pressure is low. For a moment because I think people would easily relate to, yeah, I get the stakes are high.
[00:42:34] Look around right now. The stakes are real high. Tell me about the pressure is low for you. Yeah.
[00:42:41] Jeff: Well, it's all about the one who I believe is sort of setting this container. Life is not up to me. I had this moment, I went to a, a retreat in the Rockies back in August. And the person from the stage asked, there was about 80, 90 men in the in the room.
[00:42:59] He asked us, he said, I want you to pause for a minute, meditate, pray on what's the story that you've been living in. And it just came. The story is a simple phrase and it connects with what we've been talking about. The story that most of my life has been living I've lived into is I'm decisive. Jeff Harmon, I am decisive.
[00:43:23] God is real. God exists, but it's up to me to make things happen. It was just like a supernatural download in the moment. And so I sat there and I said, so what is the story that you want me to live into? And I sat with it. I think we were actually let go. I, I wish I could show you a picture of this vista on the patio that we could look on the Rockies.
[00:43:46] And I just got to sit with that and it was. I God, your father, I'm decisive. Hmm. And I'm inviting you to participate in what I'm doing in your life. And I still have trouble leaning into that, but when I do, that's when the pressure is low. That's when I can sleep soundly at night is when I lean into the truth.
[00:44:19] Of the new story that I was given on that day, two sentences. That's what has led to the pressure being low for me. And it, it is weird. I mean, there's no doubt to, to frame it like stakes are high, pressure is low. That is a counterintuitive truth. Yep. That is total makes no sense. So I totally get your reflection of those that might be listening.
[00:44:45] Because I don't believe it all the time. Believe me, I get it. So it is counterintuitive, but it is po. It is. It is available. That's the invitation. I think that comes back to the invitation that we've been given to step into this, this love story is that when you do, when I have, that's when that counterintuitive truth actually makes total sense.
[00:45:09] Yeah.
[00:45:10] Luke: The way that you connected to it of you know, what's the story that you have been living, and then what is the story that you are being asked to live into? That's part of this shift. We've been talking about it throughout this conversation, and it's part of this shift that's unfolding and what has been amazing to me in my own experience of the more times that I have.
[00:45:29] Followed that next first track. The more times that I have looked at what is trying to happen for me in my life, what is trying to come through in my life right now, what is life asking me right now? What is that story that I'm being asked to live into? The more times that I have paid attention to that.
[00:45:46] And been present to what is trying to unfold, and I have followed that next first track. It's like so much begins to get revealed and things begin to work in a certain flow. Not saying that there aren't bumps and challenges and pushing through a, those are still there, but you feel a different connection.
[00:46:08] To the path in which you are then going and I still go through the same thing. I still lose the path. I still go, wait a minute. I question. I doubt I still go through all of those, those dark nights at times, but it's, it's been amazing to me to find the way in which the more you open up to it, and the more that you allow this guidance to appear inside of your life, just what can begin to unfold.
[00:46:38] I guess the question I have for you, knowing you have walked without that faith that you have walked from the standpoint of being the one who was decisive, of being the one who was largely alone and had to own and be at the center of of your life, what allowed you, like what was that process or what did that that journey look like for you?
[00:47:05] Of actually switching roles, right? Of being the one who had to create it all. Being the hero to saying that, actually I'm not the hero in this story. Hmm. That's a major that's, you know, that leap of faith. What did that journey look like? So
[00:47:23] Jeff: God has been pursuing me into this story, most especially over the last three to five years.
[00:47:30] For me, it's been being surrounded by. Allies, I would say almost all men cuz the masculine journey is unique in this. This is an invitation for whether masculine or feminine, but the masculine journey is unique. It's a gift. So faith is a gift, I believe, by grace I've been given this gift of faith. And as part of that, the people that have been put into my life are these are these men.
[00:48:04] We walk together in this invitation, in this life and to support each other, and what I'm describing is not a church. I've never attended a Sunday service with any of them. I'm just going through my mind, you know? Right. The men that I'm thinking of, Kelsey lives in Iowa. Ryan lives in Austin, Texas. Morgan lives in Colorado Springs.
[00:48:27] Mike lives in Colorado. You know, so I'm just thinking of these names. So this is not about church. This is about, now there are good people that I do attend a local community with that are good people, but the ones that have really. Ignited and supported me in this journey have been essential. And to be intentional about connecting and, and having people who are gonna speak truth into your life and to remind you of this story that you're in are just that, I mean, that is just indispensable
[00:49:04] Luke: for me.
[00:49:04] Yeah. Yeah, it's, that's interesting cause that. Allows me to reflect as well of, you know what, what has supported me. In this journey in making some of that, that very, very significant shift of doubt, opening into trust and trust opening up into faith. And as I begin to watch that journey, it's, it's very, very true for me.
[00:49:31] The circles that I have been surrounded by and the, the people who have been connected and, and put into my life at those specific times, and in many instances, not. Many instances that this was not planned, where it was not like I, I specifically went and sought something out. It was following the, you know, that that next first track and all of a sudden realizing, wow, look at.
[00:49:57] Look at the people that are around me. Look at what it is that I've been invited into. Look at the support that I've received, and look at what I can go back to when I am struggling, when I am in doubt, when I need some of, of that reconnection that I'm struggling to find for myself right now. Having those places that I can go back into, and to me, I think it's part of.
[00:50:20] What is has been driving me to hold more circles and it has been more specifically focused on men because of my own personal journey. Right. And and part of what you're describing to as well is the masculine journey is, is a different journey as the feminine journey is a different journey. And that said, To create those types of spaces that people can come back to, which allows us to gather again, but in a way that's reflective, that is accepting, that is part of a love story that feels like we can be held while we're going through whatever it is that we're going through.
[00:50:57] And I, I, you know, I think of the ways in which that we have lost that. In our society with the fact, you know, more people than ever before are, are not in any form of organized religion. The fact that we don't have a lot of trust in certain institutions, not even just religious, but institutions in general.
[00:51:16] We need to find those ways to gather again. Because we don't have to go on this walk alone. That's the whole, that's the whole point of this podcast, right, is we don't have to go on this walk alone. So anyway, I, I appreciate you you bringing that up as a big piece, cuz it, it was a, it's been a crucial piece and we'll continue to be a crucial piece of my journey.
[00:51:34] Jeff: And there's a, there's another piece here that I don't want to be misconstrued, Luke, is that we're not talking about, you know, wealth and fame, prosperity. This is not, A prosperity message of prosperity because that's not what the invitation here is. We're gonna experience prosperity, but we're also gonna experience deep suffering and devastation and, and loss and zero balances in our bank account and divorce.
[00:52:06] Yep. I experienced divorce. I'm in a wheelchair. I don't want it to be construed like, okay, if I accept this invitation, Jeff and Luke are saying, well, all it's gonna be roses and and butterflies. This is not the story. I mean, Jesus said, in this world you will have trouble. There is no promise of peaches and cream.
[00:52:27] That's not what this life is about. This invitation is about and I want, I just wanna make that really clear, cuz it can be, it can be misconstrued.
[00:52:36] Luke: I, again, very much appreciate it and what. What I ask everybody then to reflect on is that you're going to experience troubles. It's part of part of being human, okay?
[00:52:48] It's part of this life. It's part of this construct, this paradigm. There's gonna be troubles, there's gonna be challenges, there's gonna be loss. That's guaranteed. It's baked into the fact that we are here for a finite period of time. Everything is here for a finite period of time on this earth. All of that is baked in.
[00:53:03] So do you want to experience that part of life, any part of life? From a place of fear, from a place of isolation, from a place that just is constantly distrusting. Or do you want to experience this from that place of love, from peace, from a certain centeredness or anchored in who you are and who you're connected to?
[00:53:28] And that, to me is, is a, a fundamental choice that we are all presented with. It may not feel like a choice, cuz it may feel like it's, but it's so easy to fall into a fear and the doubt, and I mean that it's, there's all sorts of reasons for that. And we could go into that as a whole other thing on our neurology and everything else, right?
[00:53:49] But at the end of the day, we do have that choice and we can find our ways to make that choice of how do I wish to experience this life? And am I gonna experience it from fear? Am I gonna experience it from a lot of you? Everybody's listening. If you've listened to any episodes in the last couple of months, you've heard that come up repeatedly.
[00:54:06] Hmm. And so I'm glad that you, you connected to that. Cause it's not, it, this isn't, it's not like, Hey, you do this and you've been the lottery. It's, it's not, it isn't that at all. This is about the way in which you choose to experience life. And that to me is part of this enormous story, is that we do get to make that choice.
[00:54:27] We do get to choose that part of our experience, and it really has such a dramatic life altering effect on who we are and how we relate and what this experience ends up being for us. Jeff, any final kind of thoughts or anything else that feels like you would like to express before we wrap up today?
[00:54:54] Just.
[00:54:57] Jeff: We were designed by our designer, by our creator, for this type of relationship. And so my invitation is, if this has sparked any curiosity in anybody's life, in their mind, is just to sit with that desire for connection and for the connection to the story that you were, that we were all created to be a part of.
[00:55:23] But it is an invitation. But my sense is that one of the first tracks is if you, if we can be present to it, is it's already in our hearts. Hmm. That's, it's how we were designed. It's in our, call it spiritual d n a. It's there. And so if you're curious about where to, where to begin, it's just to be quiet and to recognize that desire for life.
[00:55:49] A desire for what you were designed for. It's simple what I just described, but it's not easy cuz we live in a noisy world with a lot of pressure and with the stakes high and a lot of pressure, and I totally get it. I live in the same world. So this is, it's simple, but it's not easy. I get it. And, um, if I could be of service to anybody, share more of my story and what this looks like for me, happy to do that.
[00:56:15] Luke: Jeff, I wanna thank you for being here. I'm so glad that our, our lunch turned into this conversation. Uh, it was not, maybe not the intention of a, of a random Friday gathering, but this has been a, a wonderful gathering for us, and I thank you for bringing this conversation forward and for sharing all of your personal experience and your journey.
[00:56:34] Uh, thanks. What has gotten you to the, to this point? Thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. It's been awesome. Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out.
[00:56:53] About this show, and remember, this is just the start of our conversation To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to on this walk.com, and click on community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join until we go on this walk again on Luke Iorio.
[00:57:13] Be well.